it was a very interesting confrontation and of cause John Mersheimer won because he has the true in his side.There are many countries in the world with regime no less democratic than that of USA and their opinions regarding Israel and her policy are totally different What said Shlomo Ben Ami about the responsability of Americans people who elected twice a such president is true but this is what John Mersheimer said , namely that AIPAC is a very important factor but not the only one in the making of US policy

Thanks Michael Cervieri for putting this up.

Shlomo Ben-Ami Rashid Khalidi and Tony Judt

have made it onto my reading list.

excellent website for free and healthy debate that the big brothers do not want you to have a sneak peak lest you know become intelligent

Good for you for posting this. Just as it is impossible to question US policy towards Cuba in Miami, or the importance of 9/11 in New York, or the relevance of the NAACP anywhere, any reasonable discussion of our Israeli policy is shouted down before it can take hold.

This bullying happens in spite of very deep divisions among Jews inside and outside Israel.

I think our policy is skewed, indeed almost run by, Jerusalem, and not to the good. In geopolitical terms the Middle East is only important for its oil and its capacity to explode. Nothing the Israelis have done has helped in either case. Don’t assume that I am an Arab apologist either. The mess that the Saudis, Egyptians and Syrians have made is despicable too.

Jawfish

As for the debate, there isn’t much of one: AIPAC , et al, are hugely powerful in Congress. It’s a subset of the larger lobbying (ie, legalized bribery) problem in our government. However, it’s a bigger problem because the Israeli lobbies are more powerful than most, and Israel/Palestine is a very dangerous flashpoint.

This without bringing up the moral issues, which are obvious to this Jew who lost family in the Holocaust: Palestine deserves a full-fledged state, and Israel needs to end its illegal occupation before it destroys the Palestinians, itself, and possibly a large chunk of the rest of the world.

The wierd thing here is that we have a debate on LOBBYING , but all the people invited are MIDDLE EAST EXPERTS .

AIPAC et. al is a very powerful lobby and distorts the debate. And yes, they do win on many issues and manage to fly under the radar in the debate.

But how does this compare to say the American farm industry? The oil lobby? The gambling lobby? The China lobby? Defense contractors? PHARMA ?

Additionally we see NRA and tobacco lobbies that exert major influence, although with more open debate.

I’m not an expert on lobbies myself, but it seems pretty clear that many of the above organizations have the same or greater capabilities as the “Israel Lobby”. In particular over the last 6 years we have heard about Dick Cheney’s energy bill being written by lobbyists behind closed doors and somewhat more openly, the Medicare perscription drug bill being written by lobbyists along with political consultants.

The U.S. spends $20 billion a year on agricultural subsidies that make sugar and ethanol more expensive for the American consumer and distort the incentives of food producers to include high fructose corn syrup as their #1 sweetener.

All of these are diversions from some imagined “perfect policy”, but none indicate a problem with the specific lobbies in question. Rather the problem is a decaying political culture in America.

Martin Indyk is a rude man. He acted the way a child would – constantly interrupting and finger pointing. Telling people what they think or what they would say is not good debating.

Thank you so much for publishing this long overdue debate.

All other lobbies in the US can be openly discussed and criticized. Not so for the extremely powerful Israel lobby, lest you be instantly torpedoed as being anti-semitic…Information about it is completely suppressed, and the American public is kept in crass ignorance. Practically no US congressman dares to question Israeli policy.

The US’ total, blind support of Israel is the result.And this is the main cause for anti-US terrorism-including 9/11.I strongly believe this is contrary to the interest of both the US(hated for it throughout the world)and Israel(how long can it survive, now that Hezbollah has resisted successfully their brutal attack?). The US should exercise its huge financial clout to bring both sides to the negotiating table, and there must be 2 independant, safe, viable states, Israel and Palestine, respecting each other. After that, why not a modern Marshall Plan for the whole area , to make it safer and make friends, not enemies? Otherwise, there will only be worsening of terrorism-and we will have brought it down on ourselves.

I find it very interesting that when Shlomo Ben-Ami was not addressing the power and influence of the lobby, but said it was up to the leaders to listen to them or not.

The veto power itself in the UN says a lot regarding the nuclear bombs, which is not allowed to be a topic at all.

But furthermore, Arabs and Jews lived side by side for hundreds of years that should have been the solution itself in 1947, a state that is an Arab/Israeli state, not a Jewish state. The displacement of Arabs and the destruction of any infrastructure in any Arab lands is a Holocaust of its own. The only way to peace is that of a unilateral nation to nation pressure on Israel to divide the lands equally and making Arabs equal class citizens in and around their lands. By this action, peace is only a step away, not a glimpse vision.

People should contact mainstream media outlets and ask them why they did not air this debate about the Israeli lobby. C-span was not even there.

One of the main points of the paper and debate proven. Call and write media outlets ask them to air this program.

You can bet Foxman from the ADL (anti-defamation league) would give any station that airs this program a call. Place your bets, call the media outlets.

I just love it when Americans talk about the middle east - how it SHOULD be, what they SHOULD do, oh’ so convenient spaying ’should’s and ’shouldn’ts around like that, with out haveing lived here ever for even a second.
So let me remind you of a few things you might not remember or you might be ignorant about.
First of all when the UN announced the Israeli state to exist next to a Palestenian state, it was the Arabs who launched the war against this resolution, and tried to drive Israel into non-existance, all occupations that occured were a result of the Arab aggression, and the israeli people fighting for their lives and existance.
Second, if you dare live in the middle east for only a month you would realise that Israelies are the ones who dream about regional peace, and transfer this dream on to their children, while Arabs dream about driving Israel into the sea, and teach that dream of hate on to their children.
Americans are very - extremely naive in thinking that there is only one absolute moral scale in this world, and theirs is it. When you go do business with the Japanese you take the time and make the effort to learn their culture. when you go as tourists to India, you study them first in order to make the best of your journey. However, when you put people’s lives at stake, with all kinds of should’s and shouldn’ts, in the middle east, you don’t even bother to study the most basic thing about their culture, their goals, their aspirations regarding Israel.
Well let me tell you one thing. All you have to do is look at the most horrendous sights of inter-racial or inter-religius disputes, and see that more than 80% of the cases involve muslim fundumentalists.
OK, there are extremists on every side, we have had our share of noisy minorities, however, in most societies, the noisy extremists do not call the cards. they are a minority, noisy, important - filling the role of the doom profits - everyone has them - marginally. But, where the palestenians and Arab countries in general are concerned, this minority is the leadership, and it is extremely extreme in it’s views, in it’s goals and aspirations. Terrorism, bomings, killings, anything bloody will do. Imagine having a neigbor like this, and let me see YOU tell HIM what he should and shouldn’t do.
Hec, even comedians when they criticise leadership - they put their lives at stake and make themselves walking targets! The mainstream is silent in fear of loosing it’s life - literaly.
Further more - Israel is not dealing with the palestenians period. It is standing against the whole Arab nation, and this is what people fail to understand. And we are talking about Arab nations led by extremists! I sincerely do not wish for any of you smarties to be in our place. Oh’ but, wait, i forgot! You ARE in our place, because the muslim fundumentalism is jeopardizing not only the middle east but the whole world too!!
One more thing. I challange you just try to imagine how the middle east would look like if the Palestinians and their advocates were to choose to invest all the moneis, efforts, dedication, abilities, PR brilliance, and all the rest of their great capabilities - and use them to build and develope themselves, feed and cloth the poor, and find work for the work less etc - instead of ruining and killing others - who do you think would profit most?

Excellent debate. Unfortunately it will go unseen by the large majority of Americans and not just because of AIPAC. We are so distracted by celebrity gossip and meaningless problems–obesity for God’s sake! that anything substantive requires just a few too many neuron firings.

One excellent example of the paper’s point is the political downfall of Cynthia McKinney. This legislator from Georgia was the only one I know of in Congress who had the courage to plead the Palestinians’ case in the House. She was attacked by the media and was the victim of a full court press by AIPAC. She earned the enmity of the Bush Admin as well by her pointed questioning of Donald Rumsfeld. Excellent piece on McKinney (http://www.counterpunch.org/donham10072006.html)

Neo-con Daniel Pipes published the names of what he called her “Arab and Islamist” donors on his website http://www.danielpipes.org/blog/290 . Imagine what someone who published a list of Jewish donors would be called.

This is just one of many examples which show the dangerous extent to which debate has been cut off on issues of serious import to all Americans.

On a personal level, with Jewish friends I’ve found that the equation in their minds (not all of them mind you) of criticism of Israel with anti-Semitism has opened an awkward chasm in our relationships, preventing honest discussion of the ever growing elephant in the room.

I served in the foreign service and was stationed in the Middle East for several years. One of my good friends from those days was selected to be the State Dept.’s spokesperson on Middle Eastern affairs for a two year period in the U.S. He told me that in all that time at public gatherings he was requested to attend (100% Jewish) he never heard one American Jew ask what was best for the US in middle eastern affirs, only what was best for Israel. I read recently where an anti-semitic person used to be a one who disliked Jews, now it has come to mean a person Jews dislike. A very bad label.

What is really weird, is the Jews in the US all seem to hate the Christians that totally support Israel, like Bush, and Falwell, et. al.

Joe in Florida

Excellent Debate, expertly managed Thank you London Review of Books and Anne-Marie Slaughter.

Whatever the shortcomings of John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt’s thesis of the motivations for the US decision to attack Iraq (I believe that “our friends in Israel” were a lame excuse after the fact) we should applaud their courage in bringing this silencing of public discourse to our attention. The censure against saying anything critical of Jews or Israelis with the conversation stopping charges of anti-Semitism needs examination (we can criticize the catholic church, president Bush, all things to do with Islam, we can be blatantly anti-Arab – blatantly prejudiced against Arab and or Islamic peoples and governments). Although I think it was disingenuous of Shlomo Ben-Ami to go along with the charges that the paper opened up the prospect of anti-Semitism (anything text or action can be misused), I think that his critique that questions were much more complex than the overweening power of the Israel Lobby is apt. I think that work of Peter Novick and Edward Linenthal (The Holocaust in American Life, and Preserving Memory), contributions of Stephen Zunes (e.g. to Foreign Policy in Focus and Tikkun) and Eugene Jarecki’s film “Why We Fight” would produce a much more complex analysis of how and why this silencing came into existence and what our involvement with Israel is about. Countless scholars are making contributions to this discourse. But their contributions are absurdly dismissed as self-hatred, when they are so obviously motivated by exactly the opposite interest – a commitment to the humanist intellectual tradition, and intellectual integrity.

The New York Sun (Sept 29) headlined its article on the debate, “‘Israel Lobby’ Caused War in Iraq, September 11 Attacks, Professor Says.” I agree. Thanks to The Lobby, however, most Americans believe we were attacked in order to convert us to Islam! Bush now admits all his previous reasons for attacking Iraq were wrong, but that nevertheless we had to invade because “Saddam was a threat.” He fails to mention that Saddam was not a threat to us; he was a threat to Israel. If Israel (and its lapdog the US) really wanted peace, they would support the Arab League Peace Plan. Instead, their only “peace plan” consists of demands for Palestinians to end resistance and recognize Israel and its settlements on occupied land.

Ephraim. You’ve drunk the Zionist founders’ Koolaid. The land didn’t belong to the Brits to donate to be the State of Israel nor did it belong to the Turks before them. It belonged to the people who had lived there already thousands of years before you got there–the Philistenes. I’d want to throw you into the sea too if you took my house and farm and created a new development on it.

As for the “Do you want to give your house back to the Indians” argument that Israelis often make to Americans who want to argue on the point–Indians didn’t have real estate for starters. In any event, because my ancestors owned slaves, doesn’t follow that I should support slavery. If I had an ancestor that murdered should I stand by and support murders?

Let’s see, if Hezbollah kidnaps five soldiers in an effort had a prisoner exchange, next time Israel will drop the atom bomb on Lebanon, because Israel is “fighting for its life.”

If Israel were a person, it would need to visit a psychiatrist for the way it sees persecutors in the people whom it persecutes.

I have been unable to follow the debate due to technological problems, but have read the paper by John Mearsheimer and Stephen Walt. Reading the paper has been an eye-opener and like a breath of fresh air. As an academic, I have enjoyed reading a paper that is well researched, well written and seeks to present a balanced analysis of the core issues. To do so in the climate described by Mearsheimer and Walt (2006) requires courage and a commitment to get to the bottom of the truth irrespective of who is pleased or displeased by such an endeavour. They are to be ommended for such an efort, in the face of hostility.

Several views that I share have already been expressed by other contributors. What I find particularly depressing about the role of the Israel Lobby and their neo-conservative protagonists is their failure to recognize the fundamental human rights of the Palestinians and the very basic fact that Israel will never have peace unless and until it withdraws from the Occupied Territories and reaches a mutually acceptable settlement with the Palestinians. One would normally expect everyone with an IQ above room temperature to recognize this basic fact but, sadly, history shows that intelligent men and women have made horrible mistakes in the past.

The Israel Lobby and their supporters have made it much more difficult for Israel and the Palestinins to reach a settlement. In the meantime, hundreds of housands, if not millions of lives have been lost throughout the Middle East as a result. It doesn’t matter how many Arab states the US may choose to attack in the future at the behest of Israel and The Lobby (the debacles in Afghanistan and Iraq have caused some rude awakening), peace will remain a mirage.

As a Black South African, I know how it feels to be treated like a second-class citizen in one’s own country. Part of the price I had to pay for resisting such treatment was to spend half of my adult life in exile. Critics/opponents of Apartheid use to be labelled ‘communists’ and/or ‘terrorists’; now critics of Israel are labelled ‘anti-Semites’. How familiar! Floyd Joe Kirby (contributor, October 15th) has a point when he suggests that in the past an anti-Semite person was one who disliked Jews; now an anti-Semite has come to mean a peson whom Jews dislike.

The efforts of The Israel Lobby to stifle debate on the Middle East must be resisted at all costs. They don’t have monopoly of the facts, wisdom and judgement.

Benedict

a good tag line for ScribeMedia, and it’s purpose in life, was conveyed by Ruth Simmons, president of my alma mater (Brown University), when she said, “there is no subject so controversial that it should not be submitted to serious study and debate.”

we view ScribeMedia.org as an online forum for discussion, dialogue and debate on interesting, important issues. The starting point is usually a video that we will put online that people can then watch and react to.

if you have filmed an event, such as a lecture, panel discussion, or debate, feel free to get in touch with us. while we film many events ourselves, we’re always looking for contributors to help bring this idea to life. we can’t be in all places at all times

peter

It was interesting to note that the debate was not about the fact that in many instances the US was supporting Israel at its own and the mid-east’s peril but on the influence that the lobby had on the administration. Every one the panel implicitly agreed that the support was indeed perilous. Now that admission is the issue to be addressed.

Hope there will be debates on that as well to examine the question.

This is a horrible debate, if you even want to call it a debate. The concept of the Israeli lobby is way too narrowly defined in this program. As Khalidi correctly pointed out, is it simply organizations, or are there larger pervasive and entrenched notions within public sentiment about the Middle East, Muslims, Arabs, and the Palestinians at the domestic American level that greatly facilitate and legitimize such staunch support for Israel? Moreover, doesn’t the lack of freedom of speech, debate, and equal exchange in the US greatly exacerbate such unquestioning support for Israel? Also - and the one that was weighing on my mind the most - where in this “debate” is the moral question of the American government supporting Israel’s ongoing occupation of the West Bank, Gaza, and East Jerusalem?

The gist of the argument by the critics of Mearscheimer & Walt (M&W) was that the Israeli lobby would not have been effective without the help or acquiescence of others, e.g. the President. But that’s precisely one of the points M & W were making. And by publicizing the point, voters who had not previously been aware of the lobby’s influence might stiffen their politicians’ back bones in resisting that influence.
One of the debating tactics of Indyk, Ross and Ben-Ami was to go after Mearscheimer as if he were claiming that the Lobby were omnipotent, rather than just extremely influential in shaping US policy in the Middle East. Those critics tried to diffuse the real issue by pointing to an incident or two in which a U.S. president actually said no to the lobby, suggesting that such incidents refute M&W’s thesis. Such blatant use of smoke screens made both Ross and Indyk seem visibly uncomfortable with their own dishonesty. Ben-Ami and other panelists also try to undermine M&W’s thesis by attacking still another one that the authors had never made, i.e. by reminding viewers that not all Jews agree with the lobby or Israel’s policies. Mearscheimer tried reminding his critics that his article clearly acknowledged that neither Jews nor the lobby were a monolithic entity. But his critics on the panel kept trying to revive this straw man.
Tony Judt was brilliant in coming to Mearscheimer’s defense against this and other attempts to distort his argument, and by reminding spectators that he – Judt –was himself Jewish – helped underscore once again that some of the most intellectually honest and astute critics of Israel are themselves Jewish. Judt was particularly good in dismantling Indyk’s sophistry about the US not being able to force Israel to act against Israel’s perceived interests. He reminded Indyk that aside from the considerable leverage the US has, the US could focus on its own national interests and distance itself from Israel, if need be. Mearscheimer usefully underscored the point on the cost of US Middle East policy to US interests by quoting from the 911 Commission Report dealing with Arab animus toward the US stemming from decades of de facto US support for Israeli oppression of Palestinians.
AIPAC is openly transparent about its role, as M&W’s critics claim, but the broader effort to stifle criticism of Israel over recent decades has been less transparent until recently. That lack of transparency – particularly in reaching the broader masses of Americans and their general apathy to foreign policy – is unquestionably the result of a lobbying effort on behalf of Israel that far transcends AIPAC’s more open and obvious role. For M&W’s critics to keep repeating that Jewish lobbyists could not have accomplished their objectives alone is beside the point.

I am impressed by the very smart and cogent comments here. Thanks everyone.

Unless I am missing the link, I wish this debate’s video could have been put online as a video for iPod. I have a long flight tomorrow and could easily have viewed it at the airport or on the plane.

Kumar, I totally agree with your short but accurate comment which reflect what I also write at http://imran.com/media/blog/ . Do feel free to comment there also. Thanks.

IMRAN

I ran across this debate in sending a internet copy of the LRB original article to a friend. What a happy chance encounter! Having read Tony Judt’s books, I expected good things from him. His clear and forceful summings up of previous ramblings rightly deserved the spontaneous applause they consistently got. The moderator was superb. This was a discussion of civilized people openly discussing differences. Presidential “debates” are a farce by comparison. I have now bookmarked your site. By the way, I am a long-term subscriber to the LRB and thoughts Judt’s final comment on the “London” location of the “sponsor” was telling - and without a self congratulatory smirk.

i am so sorry to have not been there to be able to tell that moderator to shut up. indeed i am confident that those present could follow this debate without her interpretation of each point in effect translating english into english. she has a very important title and i for one would hope that her title would include her prowess as a major condescending egocentric jackass or her Ph-mcej degree.

I would have liked to hear the several segments that were edited out of this debate.
Congrats LRB, more of the same would be very helpful, since the media in the USA is hopelessly for sale and the help from London for free speech and intelligent debate is much appreciated.
Thanks
OT-NYC

Got very happy to watch a dissent discussion…

London

To win the war on terrorism;
Stop pouring my tax dollars down the rat hole of the religious artificial welfare state of Israel,
the most destabilizing entity in the world since its fraudulent inception.

Israel has security concerns, Palestinians have genocide concerns.

As a US citizen and taxpayer I am embarrassed that I have for decades been paying Israel to murder Palestinians (Jews murdering Muslims). Israelis have stolen land, homes, livelihoods, lives and water from the Palestinians for decades, with the financing of the U.S.
I can understand why the Jews wanted a safe place to build a society after WW II. Only weak-minded religious idiots would think that Palestine would be a safe haven for Jews. The concept and establishment of Israel was a mistake, is a mistake and will always be a mistake, no matter how much money is poured down the rat hole.

My tax dollars support Israel
My gas dollars support Muslims
My tax dollars kill Muslims (genocide by proxy)
My gas dollars kill Americans.

Stuck in the status quo …
copyright 2006

What intelligence did we receive from Israel concerning Iraq prior to the Iraq invasion?
Was the information accurate?

As an ally that spies on USA , harbors U.S. criminals, receives 2 to 3 billion dollars a year in welfare one of their great values is intelligence concerning the Middle East.

Other than killing Muslims for us, what is the value of Israel?

Thank you, thank you for making this video available. It is so great to listen to and watch these heavyweights of foreign policy, rather than just read a transcript.

Thank you London Review of Books, and Cooper Union for providing this debate for us to see. I have applauded the LRB, from the beginning, since they decided to published the Mearsheimer/Walt paper.

Unfortunately, I believe only a small percentage of Americans are even aware of AIPAC and the Zionist forces at work in America. And, as was pointed out by a questioner in the audience, just how much mainstream media coverage of this debate was there from the big outlets? Need I even ask this question? I think the most amusing part of the debate was when Indyk, after some things had been said by a member of the panel, decided to go with the tack of trying to portray himself and AIPAC as some sort of humanitarian effort(!), and that there was nothing really secretive about the Lobby, that is was quite open and proud of itself. And of course, he really shone when he made the claim that the reason the Mearsheimer/Walt paper did not find a publisher in America, was that it was, you guessed it, so lacking in scholarship. He seemed to feel quite smug after the utterance. He also likely wonders why there is anti-Semitism in the world.

Another amusing part was near the end when Ben-Ami kept reiterating that it was American leadership, not any lobby, that decided on policy. That’s hilarious considering that virtually every *successful* politican in America today knows full well the grave dangers of not walking the Zionist line, and what happens to the ones who don’t. This was beautifully described in the Mearsheimer/Walt paper.

It was also entertaining to see the tippy toeing around the word “cabal.” In my mind, that is exactly (or pretty close) what AIPAC is and there are always going to be problems in debates like this when things are not referred to as what they really are. But the avoidance of the label is understandable, as far as Mearsheimer is concerned, considering that the Zionists have managed to cultivate the idea in the public’s collective mind that such ideas can only mean that the person suggesting such a thing is somehow not credible, hate-filled, anti-Semitic, or downright insane.

Again, thanks London Review of Books for being a shining star in the darkness.

Thank you.
Good debate, at least for the first.

Suggestions for next ones:
- American Beliefs and Media/Hollywood, who decides (good ones and evil ones)? minister of truth (looks like there is one)?
- American freedom results on welfare of 3rd countries: I (1945 - 2006) , II (1929 - 1945), III (1913 -1929)- Allways the good guys?
- American knowledge of How system works, and their part on it.
- And last but not least the two H. Is it posible to debate?

Excellent and enlightening effort by LRB. Excellent choice of panalists and moderator. The debate raised other excellenet sujects each of them is worthy of a separate debate.

Indyk and Ross have been officially involved in the peace efforts in the ME on behald of the USA for a longtime. It was surprising, therefore, to learn from the debate that both have been so closely associated with AIPAC. Not good for even handedness.

Great, now check this out:

Understanding Jewish Influence III:
Neoconservatism as a Jewish Movement

Kevin MacDonald

Over the last year, there has been a torrent of articles on neoconservatism raising (usually implicitly) some difficult issues: Are neoconservatives different from other conservatives? Is neoconservatism a Jewish movement? Is it “anti-Semitic” to say so?

The thesis presented here is that neoconservatism is indeed a Jewish intellectual and political movement. This paper is the final installment in a three-part series on Jewish activism and reflects many of the themes of the first two articles. The first paper in this series focused on the traits of ethnocentrism, intelligence, psychological intensity, and aggressiveness.1 These traits will be apparent here as well. The ethnocentrism of the neocons has enabled them to create highly organized, cohesive, and effective ethnic networks. Neoconservatives have also exhibited the high intelligence necessary for attaining eminence in the academic world, in the elite media and think tanks, and at the highest levels of government. They have aggressively pursued their goals, not only in purging more traditional conservatives from their positions of power and influence, but also in reorienting US foreign policy in the direction of hegemony and empire. Neoconservatism also illustrates the central theme of the second article in this series: In alliance with virtually the entire organized American Jewish community, neoconservatism is a vanguard Jewish movement with close ties to the most extreme nationalistic, aggressive, racialist and religiously fanatic elements within Israel.2

http://www.kevinmacdonald.net/UnderstandJI-3.htm

Excellent debate, and thanks for posting it on this website. Indeed it is difficult to discuss American-Israeli relations in an open debate. Professor Mearsheimer has tremendous knowledge on the subject matter and has conducted intensive research. I have read the piece, and it shows NO signs of “Anti-Semitism”. Only Critics of the piece such as forces within the Lobby and people such as Alan Dershowitz would say such bad things. It would be a miracle to see one day this issue be brought up on Foxnews, CNN, MSNBC in a fair and balanced manner.

AIPAC is the third largest lobby in the U.S. and the largest foreign lobby. I’m not sure how much of our foreign aid supports the lobby that requests the aid (circular financials), but no one spends that much money expecting little in return. I don’t care if it’s Israel or Honduras; that much influence will always work against U.S. interests. I’m ashamed that no one in my government stands up and rejects the money. There is no topic in the U.S. goverment that receives 100% support like Israel. None. We have and will continue to pay for that bias.

Is a DVD of this debate available? If so, I would like to get a copy.

Yes, DVDs will be available next week (November 6). You can email pubs [at] scribemedia [dot] org to make your order.

Excellent debate. What a refreshing change to listen to principled discussion about issues of consequence. For me, the most insidious trend in our culture is the stifling of unfettered discourse, and this debate was an antidote to that. Thanks.

In the better late than never category, the post-debate press conference for this event is now available. You can view it here.

This is a response to Ephrat Abisror’s comment (above):
Base your arguments and percentages on facts rather than racist allegations about millions of people. It is people with your kind of attitude that are the source of our worries!
Do research, read the essay… actually… don’t do anything, you’re hopeless!

“I am well aware of the tactics YOU, my Zionist brethren, use to quiet anyone who attempts to expose any of your subversive acts. If the person is gentile, you cry “you’re anti-Semitic,” which is nothing more than a smokescreen to hide your actions. But if a Jew is the person doing the exposing, you resort to other tactics:
First, you ignore the charges, hoping the information will not be given widespread distribution. It the information starts reacting too many people, you ridicule the information and the person giving the information. If that doesn’t work, your next step is character assassination. If the author or speaker hasn’t been involved in sufficient scandal, you are adept at fabricating a scandal against the person or persons. If none of these are effective, you are known to resort to physical attacks. But NEVER do you try to prove the information wrong. ” (from The Life Of An American Jew in Racist-Marxist Israel. By Jack Bernstein, 1984)

I congratulate the LRB, Messrs. Mearsheimer and Walt, ScribeMedia.org for their bravery. Even Bob Woodward, (in his new book about the Iraq war), if his Index is to be used as a guide, doesn’t discuss in detail the connection between the Israeli government and the Bush II administration in relation to Iraq. I guess Woodward values the loyalty of his sources more than telling the whole truth.

I compliment you for giving the public this extraordinary opportunity to listen to a debate that so directly involves the
security of the United States. No one questions the virtually total failure of the media in this country to present the issue of whether it is in our interest to identify ourselves with Israel,or any other country, when to do so will expose us to terrorist attacks.

How telling it is that this conference was not televised or broadcast on any U.S. media outlet. Not even C-Span!

One of the points Mearsheimer and Walt make..that the MSM does not cover this issue in a fair, balanced and accurate way!

Ephrat Abisror. Would that be anything like Israel demanding that Iraq, Iran and other nations abide by UN resolutions that they will not abide by. Would that be like Israel demanding that other nations abide by the IAEA non-proliferation treaty while they hide massive stockpiles of nuclear, biological and chemical weapons!

When Israel wants to get off America’s teat(welfare system) and start paying back the loans that they endlessly escape paying back. Then you can demand that Americans should stop having an opinion. ISRAEL STOP TAKING U.S. MONEY!

Excellent debate. Question: How could our best and brighest men and women in Congress/Pentagon/Media-in the “land of the free and home of the brave”- be so spineless? For folks who want to learn more about this subject -The “power of the lobby” is the topic of a new book by Professor James Petras. Titled: (aptly) “The Power of Israel in the United States.” Clarity Press 2006. ( ALSO HAS A VERY STIMULATING WEBSITE-GOOGLE: James Petras)

Search “Palestine: Peace Not Apartheid” by Jimmy Carter on Amazon.com and read the customer comments (260 as of today)for further confirmation of the polarizing effect of this issue–and the need to open it to public debate. Notice who vilifies President Carter and gives his book one star out of five. Then notice who thanks him for having the courage to speak out and gives him a five-star rating. We need to wake up before the myth of Armageddon becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy.

I wanted to comment on Ephrat Abisror’s comments, then found that Dave Frasier said most of what I had planned on saying. Right on, Brother Dave!
I will say that my right to criticise Israel stems from my tax dollars that have supported that racist “nation” for years. Aabisror lambasts anyone who complains about the Zionist state but is still happy to take US dollars. I hold onto the right to say how my tax dollars are spent.
No money to kill Iraqi people!
No money to kill Palestinian people!
No blood for oil.
Or for Israel.

I think Dennis Ross talk at the end of video 05, was a replay concerns the people who think the lobby is controlling the world or the united states …
he said the adminstration did things the lobby did not agree on !
and questioned the lobby effect effect on global warming

[…] LRB julkaisee myös katsauksia yleispoliittisiin asioihin, mm. viime maaliskuussa julkaistu laaja kirjoitus Israelin vaikutusvallasta USAn ulko- ja sisäpolitiikkaan aiheutti sen verran laineita ympäri maailman (mm. perinteiset syytökset anti-semitismistä), että lehti päätti lopulta järjestää aiheen tiimoilta paneelikeskustelun. Herkkä aihe, olihan Suomessakin kohua Erkki Tuomiojan lausuntojen jälkeen 2001 ja 2005 (pdf)… […]

The debate and the reaction of those in audience was surprising enough..but by reading the comments above i do not understand how when so many ordinary people are willing to recognize the biased attitude of the media/congressmen towards this issue, how are U.S decision makers ignoring their own people?..why have the intellectuals and other opinion makers stayed quiet about thsi..Though the existance of a Cabal was repeatedly denied by all yet the mainstream media’s apprant ignorance (deliberate?) of this debate and in fact failure to hold such a debate on their own clearly points towards a sinster plot…Indeed anti-semite is a term which is flinged around with abandon on anyone critical of Israel yet the fact that Arabs (christians or Muslims) as a race are also Semites is never even mentioned in various discussions..Armeggadon surely seems like a self-fulfilling prophecy…O ya and i hope there is debate on the role the evangelicals and christian zionists in creating a pro-israel stand on issues regarding Foreign policy..

Bible Prophecy: A Vietnam Veteran’s Perspective

Greetings.

The God of Israel is bringing all of mankind to one final crossroads. The Jewish people and the land of Israel are standing at the intersection and no one can pass through without first deciding whether they love or hate the Jews and their coming Messiah. God’s eternal judgment is coming upon those who have sided with the hate that dwells within them! Please consider the following questions:

Are aliens or angels real? Is someone or thing â out thereâ in the heavens? Do they have anything to do with the wars raging in the Middle East? Is more war or peace on the horizon? Will Israeli and American tanks have to roll into Damascus and Tehran respectively, to keep them from obtaining nuclear weapons? Or will Iran and Syria make peace with Israel? Does there need to be regime changes in these two nations first? Will Russia and America work together for peace in the Holy Land? Will the Pope help? Will Mary, the Queen of Heaven, help as well? Can the Jews and Moslems share the Temple Mount in Jerusalem, allowing for the rebuilding of Solomonâ s Temple right next to the infamous Dome of the Rock mosque? What do communism, fascism, monarchies, theocracies, democracies, and republics all have in common? How are Christians suppose to relate and react to the men in charge of these various forms of civil government? Will the coming infamous peacemaking Antichrist
be a Jew, a Muslim, a New Ager, or a Christian? And finally, are Christians counted as sheep for the slaughter or militant soldiers of the sword? Are they to be lambs or lions in this life and world?

I happened to see your name and address on a web site and was wondering if you were open to reading some things I have written, including the questions I just asked above? And thank you for allowing internet contact, for the last thing I want to do is intrude or be needlessly offensive. Isn’t it great that the internet provides for the free flow and exchange of knowledge?

I would like to welcome you to visit my web site, if you are interested in knowing about today’s political-religious-military events, including those in Israel and America, and how they relate to Bible prophecy from one Vietnam veteranâ s perspective. The five years I served as a commissioned officer in the United States Army helped me to understand why nations war against each other.

If you drop by my web site please let me know by signing the “guestbook” or dropping me an email. Thank you for reading this and I hope to hear from you soon. Again, if you have any interest in the questions above, please consider reading my articles â The Judgment Chroniclesâ , â Despising Government, Part 1 and 2″, “Rick Warren’s Purpose”, and “An Appeal to Hal Lindsey”, posted on our web site. And if you want to read about my military background, please read the article â Moved with Compassionâ . Just click on my web site link below and click on â Articlesâ . The radio interviews I have been part of can be listened to by clicking on this link: http://www.weehoursradio.com/JackHook.html

Sincerely, Jack D. Hook

jdhook@cox.net

Babylon the Great is Falling

http://www.babylonthegreatisfalling.net

Israel, US, and “the lobby”-1: Apartheid in the occupied territories?…

The Washington Post had an interesting article that said how in 1941, David Ben-Gurion, one of the founders of Israel……

Be sure to see the finklestein/Ben-Ami debate hosted by Amy Goodman on Democracy Now web site.

Hi,
I found your blog via google by accident and have to admit that youve a really interesting blog
Just saved your feed in my reader, have a nice day

I suggest all american’s and the world go to google and type in “benjamin freedman” and listen to his 1961 speech. and then maybe you will understand how we got to where we are today.

One question I would have liked to see answered is: Would the US policy towards Israel and the Palestinians been different all these years if AIPAC was not as strong on the Hill?

[…] Aznar acabó el día cenando con el Instituto Judío para Asuntos de Seguridad Nacional (JINSA, según sus siglas en inglés), una organización que representa a la línea dura de la comunidad hebrea en EEUU, y que le dio su primer Premio al Liderazgo Internacional. JINSA es una organización pequeña, poco conocida incluso por los judíos estadounidenses. Es mucho menos representativa de esa comunidad que, por ejemplo, el Comité Judío Americano (AJC), y mucho menos influyente que el Comité Americano-Israelí de Asuntos Públicos (AIPAC), la bestia negra para quienes ven por todas partes una gran conspiración judía para conquistar EEUU, el mundo y, tal vez, la galaxia. […]

Part of Jewish tact was to accuse other party of ANTI-SEMETICISM, imagen a white person criticising the actions of black African American; about drugs, criminal activities, AND the African Americans accuse the white writer of RACISM. The tact is to silence criticism by implying he DONT LIKE MY COLOUR THATS WHY HE IS CRITICISING ME, it works. Same with Jewish groups, they have promoted the use of word ANTI-SEMETIC / ‘ISM, you point the finger at the JEWISH DEEDS, and BEFORE THAT FINGER GOES DOWN some JEWISH NUT CASE WILL; “He Is Anti-Semetic!”

If criticising a group of people and THEIR NAT’ZI {NAZI}WAYS IN ISRAEL, will EARN ME THE TITILE OF “Anti-Semetic” then please, do invite me for the medal ceremony.

The real issue is not whether or in what extent the Lobby and AIPAC influence the policy makers at Capitol hill and the U.S. foreign policy toward Israel. This is the legal right of every interest group and organization. The real problem is that they have been so successful in creating such an atmosphere in US, where no one and particularly no politician dare criticize Israel publicly. Criticizing Israel is a taboo in US and it kills the public debate on the issue.

Zam, you hit it right on the head!! By why is it taboo to criticize Israel? Well, I’ll tell you why! For starters the media is our enemy. Americans have been literally brainwashed into thinking that Jews are good and Arabs are bad. And we are so stupid not to realize that EVERY single major media outlet is owned/controlled by Zionist Jews! This is a FACT!! ABC, CBS, NBS, CNN, FOX, The New York Times, The Washington Post, The Chicago Sun Times, Hollywood, etc, etc, etc. But if you even dare speak these facts you are labled as anti-semetic even though it’s true! But the most compelling evidence of Jewry in America is through the Federal Reserve System which is PRIVATELY OWNED!! YES! Privately owned by a majority of Jewish interests. Bottom line is “Whoever Controls the money Controls the Country”, period! And our politicians are cowards because they know it to be true but do NOTHING!!

And to the so-called historian who said that “when the UN announced the Israeli state to exist next to a Palestenian state, it was the Arabs who launched the war against this resolution, and tried to drive Israel into non-existance, all occupations that occured were a result of the Arab aggression, and the israeli people fighting for their lives and existance.”
This is a bunch of BS!!!! For starters, who in the Hell gave the UN the authority to uproot 100’s of thousands of people for the sake of giving Europeans a piece of Palestine??? The Balfour Declaration is one of the biggest scams in the history of the world! Theodore Herzl, the founder of modern day Zionism started his plan decades before the creation of “Israel”, which is nothing more than a country full of Askenazi Europeans that don’t have a drop of Biblical Judean Blood! You people make me sick! Liars, cheats and enemies of Christianity! And you’ve got Christians actually believing in Judeo-Christianity and that Muslims hate Christians!! That’s insane!!! The Holy Koran reveres Mary and Jesus to the fullest! Jesus is mentioned more times in the Koran than Muhamad!! However, the Zionistic Talmud calls Mary a whore and says that Jesus is boiling in Semen in Hell!!! Now you tell me who is our friend and who is our enemy!

And lastly Mr. so-called historian, I KNOW about the Bolshevik revoloution and how 20-60 million Christians were killed at the savage hands of Jews but you don’t hear about this in the media. All we are “fed” by the Jewish media is the so-called Holocaust which is now being protected by so-called Hate Speech laws. Too funny! I “see” right through your BS!!!

hi nasa,

i believe NBC is owned by GE, which is a public company, formerly run by the legendary Jack Welch, who is not jewish. CNN is owned by TimeWarner, a public company, run by a black man, Richard Parsons. i could go on…but generally, make sure you ACTUALLY know what you’re talking about before making blanket statements. it’s not good journalism. it’s not good blog commenting.

the media is your enemy? i’m part of the media. and i never wake up in the morning thinking i’m someone’s enemy. is al jazeera your enemy i guess your enemy is the person who says things you don’t agree with. your friend is the person who says what you think.

in the world, there are good jews and bad jews, good arabs and bad arabs, good muslims and bad muslims, good black people and bad black people, good white people and bad white people, good journalists and bad journalists, good blog commenters and bad blog commenters, etc…

as for you, i feel bad. you see the world in black and white and are very one-sided in your views. it’s people like you that i fear the most.

peter

Yes it is people like me that you should fear most because I see staright through your deceit while you try to “spin” things. The President & CEO of NBC is Jeff Zucker (Jew). Just becasue a company is publicly traded doesn’t mean Jack Squat! Shareholders are ownly concerned about making money and are totally oblivious to what “content” is being fed to the public!! It’s all about the dollar, period! And Gerald LEVIN was just replaced by Richard Parsons, HOWEVER the Senior Management of NBC News content are Jewish!!! Throwing out Richard Parsons is like saying that President Bush really pulls the “Strings” in America. Good try! And wow, you sure missed all of the other media outlets I mentioned!! All the debate in the world DOES NOT diminish the fact that the true American public has been purposely led to beleive that we are under attack by Islam and that’s a BIG 9/11 LIE!!! And for the record, I’m not a Jew hater, I just hate liars and criminals and the blatant double standard that Israel/Zionists receive when it comes to EVERYTHING! Wake up! Oh, and for the record before you try and paint me as a David Dukie, I’m a black Episcopalian and I’m tired of people like you telling me there isn’t an elephant sitting in my living room!

Oh, I almost forgot to mention that they only represent 4% of the population! Oh, and according to the FBI Jews lead in Hate Hoaxes. Meaning they were staged. But curiously things like this don’t hit the news. Wonder why? Not hate, just a fact!

Don’t ask me if this post is Anti-Semetic! Ask me if it’s true!!

It isn’t Arabs who have hijacked my government - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who have hijacked the American legal system and now are transforming it to conform to Talmudic law - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who own and run the Federal Reserve Bank, which is in the process of destroying the dollar and the American economy - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs rigging the US stock market and commodities futures markets - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who sent our military into Afghanistan and Iraq - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs who refuse to serve in the US Military in numbers proportionate to their population percentage - it is jews (1/10 of 1%, vs. 2-1/2%).
It wasn’t Arabs who sued to remove “under God” from the Pledge of Allegiance - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who sued to remove the Ten Commandments from that Alabama courthouse, had Judge Moore removed from the bench and now seek to disbar him - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who sue to remove nativity scenes from public venues - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who erect menorahs in public venues in place of crosses - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who sued to remove group prayer from public schools - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs suing to remove decorative lights from schools at Christmas - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs who refuse to allow children to say grace over their school lunches - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who continue to impose affirmative action upon us in all walks of life - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who began and continue to expand militant feminism - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who buy off all our legislators with our own tax dollars - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who tried to sink the USS Liberty and killed and maimed so many of its crewmembers during an extended attack - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs enacting hate crime laws designed to outlaw criticism of themselves - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who run NAMBLA (North American Man-Boy Love Association) - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs suing to force us to allow homosexuals to lead boy scout troops - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who started and ran so many black organizations like the NAACP - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs importing huge numbers of Somalians and Bantu into American cities - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who formulated American legislation providing pensions to Russian jewish immigrants for doing nothing - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs who run organized crime throughout America - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who import tons of drugs into America every day - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who literally own and run all of Hollywood’s moviemaking enterprise - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who literally own and run all of America’s mainstream media - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs spewing obscenity and race-mixing propaganda from the TV and movie screens - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs trying mightily to block release of the Mel Gibson movie, “The Passion” - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs lying about and guilt tripping us with “the holocaust” - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs stealing American tax dollars to fund all their holocaust monuments throughout America - it is jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who forged the Anne Frank “diary” - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who lied about gas chambers at Dachau and Auschwitz - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who lied about mass graves at Treblinka - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who lied about jews being made into lamp shades and soap during WWII - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who doctored WWII prison camp photos to appear to be belching smoke from crematoria - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who used WWII pictures of dead non jews, claiming they were jews - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who made anti-semitical talk punishable by death in Russia after they took power - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who killed over 20 million Russian Christians - it was jews.
It wasn’t Arabs who looted and destroyed the Russian economy - it was jews.
It isn’t Arabs who have amassed an illegal arsenal of over 300 nuclear weapons in the Middle East - it is the jews.
It isn’t Arabs who brag about controlling America - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who advocate the use of torture by and on Americans - it is jews.
It isn’t Arabs who twist American laws to punish anti-semitical speech - it is jews.

The president of NBC News is Neal Shapiro. Jeff Zucker is NBC Universal Television Group president. Reporting directly to Zucker is his close friend Jonathan Wald, formerly an NBC program producer, now a senior consultant for CNBC. David M. Zaslav is president of NBC Cable (and also a director of digital video firm TiVo Inc.). The president of MSNBC is Rick Kaplan. All of these men are Jews.

I’m sorry! You were saying what about NBC????? And if you think that FOX isn’t dominated by the same people out to make US think that Islam/Arabs/Palestinians are evil check this out:

Rupert Murdoch, owner of FOX, is nominally a Gentile, but there is some uncertainty about his ancestry and he has vigorously supported Zionism and other Jewish causes throughout his life. (Historian David Irving has published information from a claimed high-level media source who says that Murdoch’s mother, Elisabeth Joy Greene, was Jewish, but we have not been able to confirm this.) Murdoch’s number two executive is Peter Chernin, who is president and chief operating officer—and a Jew.

Under Chernin, Jews hold key positions in the company: Gail Berman runs Fox Entertainment Group; Mitchell Stern heads satellite television division DirecTV; Jane Friedman is chairman and CEO of Harper Collins; and Thomas Rothman is chairman of Fox Filmed Entertainment. News Corporation also owns the New York Post and TV Guide, and both are published under Chernin’s supervision. The primary printed neoconservative journal, The Weekly Standard, is also published by News Corporation and edited by William Kristol, a leading Jewish neocon spokesman and “intellectual.”

Are you still there? Do you have anything else enlightening to say?? Peter?? Are you there??? Yes, fear people like me because I see STRAIGHT THROUGH YOU! Sooner or later Americans will wake up.

As Zam correctly pointed out, it is the right of every interest group and organization to try and advanced its agenda. But in the case of the Jewish Lobby, no one in the mass media makes any comments about their operations.
And no politician ever criticizes the human rights abuses that Israel commits in Palestine. They all support Israel and its policies. To even consider mentioning the right of Palestine, the heavy influence Israel has over the US would equate to political suicide.
Over 30% of campaign contributions to the Republican Party are made by Jewish organizations and up to 60% of campaign contributions to the Democrats are given by Jewish organizations.
(James Petras has published a very interesting book: The Power of Israel in the United States) you cannot find this book at Chapters (controlled by Jews) they decide what can be sold or not. I got my copy from Amazon.

America’s interests are not necessarily the interests of Israel. The Lobby tries (succeeds) in making America’s interests congruent with those of the Israel. There was no benefit for the USA to go to Iraq. The oil industry never pushed for this war and would of liked to deal with Saddam (he offers stability). Russia, Germany, France and other countries were doing business with Saddam. American companies could of easily bid for a chance to exploit the oil.
On the other hand, Israel’s interest groups in the US were all pushing for a war. They released many papers trying to incite the government to action.

Jersey, you cannot put everyone in the same basket. As ‘ScribeMedia.Org February 21st, 2007 11:15 am’ pointed out,
” there are good jews and bad jews, good arabs and bad arabs, good muslims and bad muslims, good black people and bad black people, good white people and bad white people… ”

In the case of Jews, they do not all support zionism and the elimination of Palestine and its people.

oops, forgot. It is true that jews are in positions of power, and many, if not all, use the power associated with their position to support israel and its interests. in the book of James Petras he raises a intersting question about the funds they recieve from america, and how much of that is recycled back to the lobby (US taxpayers would be funding these groups that work in the interest of a foreign state.

Specifics. « The Power of Israel in the united States »

“What would be interesting to study is the degree to which the 3$ to 10$ billion dollars in US aid to Israel is recycled back to the Lobby via money transfers, lucrative contracts between Lobby donors and Israeli enterprises and banks. In which case, US taxpayers would actually be subsidizing a network of local lobbyists working on behalf of a foreign power.”

I think that Mearsheimer and Walt made a point in their piece, but the key argument was delivered by Shlomo Ben-Ami:

“It is a question of leadership, a lobby is never an insuperable obstacle”

Rashid Khalidi’s more broad interpretation of “long term public opinion-modeling”, which is the result of narrowly dispersed or concentrated power/influence, takes us to media coverage, media manipulation and structural constraining of public opinion through limited, selective output,…that’s dangerous for any society, that’s where change needs to be enforced…

The Iraq War or the war on terrorism is not a Jewish coup, it is the coup of sectors who make money on war. By the way the oil-lobby does profit from the war in Iraq, what else made the oil-price jump? Check out the profits of Exxon since 2003 and then reconsider…

We should understand that there is a massive correlation of interests, those of hardliners in Israel and the USA, who derive their political legitimacy from violent escalation of conflicting interests and not settlements. Sectors and individuals who make money on war stand behind hardliners, simple is that.

The AIPAC and “friends” are hardliners, they support hardliners , that’s why Shlomo Ben-Ami feels to some degree offended by the piece of Mearsheimer and Walt, it lacks the notion of differences between Israeli governments (Rabin, Barak) and the Israel-lobby, although he doesn’t say it directly. The extremity of differences is manifested in Rabin’s death…therefore the generalizations about Jews behind this and that is contra-productive, these kind of unspecific accusations play into the hands of the hardliners, it legitimatizes hardliner-policy within the Jewish community in Israel and beyond.

And for those who think the Fed is the all mighty power, the American government can buy the Fed back any time (actually for a silly price) and it is not only Jews who “own” the Fed,…

“it is a question of leadership…,” and the nation elects it’s
leaders

“And for those who think the Fed is the all mighty power, the American government can buy the Fed back any time (actually for a silly price) and it is not only Jews who “own” the Fed”

WHAT???????

Please explain! I’m just dying to hear this! While your coming up with your answer let me educate you about a few things. (Not saying this sarcastically)

The four presidents below have 2 things in common besides being President of The United States.

Andrew Jackson - Attempted Assasination (Assasins Gun mis-fired)

James Garfield - Assasinated

Abraham Lincoln - Assasinated

John F. Kennedy - Assasinated

The other MAJOR thing they ALL had in common was their determination to disnantle the “Money Changers”, commonly known as the FED as of 1913. JFK issued Executive Order 11110 which completely dismantled the FED, he was assasinated 6 months later. No, it wasn’t Russians, The CIA or Aliens!!! Just follow the money!!!!!!

President Lincoln, the creator of “GreenBacks”, the money that was printed by the ACTUAL GOVERNMENT, not the PRIVATELY OWNED system at the time, said “I have 2 enemies, one in front of me as the Confederate Army and one behind me in the form of International Bankers” “The one behind me is far worse!” Now if killing 4 Presidents and NEVER REALLY getting caught ain’t power I must not know what power is!

Just do some research using books not published by SIMON & SCHUSTER, America’s largest publishing house!

Jersey

While some of the information Jersey provides may be factual, the vociferousness of his presentation diminishes credibility. It is a fact that Jews represent about 2.5% of the US population : their occupation of senior media positions is probably in excess of 70% of available jobs. Perhaps they are just more talented than everybody else.

In all events media can only “control” an intellectually lazy population. Who could characterize Americans as such, focussed as they are on Anna Nicole Smith and American Idol….

Politicians in the US today are, of course, eminently “buyable”. To get elected you need funds which would not be available by opposing Israel ; and huge speaking fees would not come easily during and after a political career.

I would suggest that the neo con noble objective of bringing democracy to the Arab Middle East is in large part to get installed governments ” corruptable” on the model of the US. Everybody wins.

Whether you agree or not with the Israel lobby you have got to hand it to them. They have analyzed perfectly how America functions, and grabbed hold of every lever.

I think when someone such as Ephrat Abisor writes such phrases as “OK” “Let me tell you one thing..” “All Arabs are…” then you are going to get a highly subjective, emotive and not very informed piece of writing.
he pays scant regrard to the fact that both Eygpt and Jordan have piece treaties with Israel, that moderate Arab countires have been subjected to horrific terrorist attacks, Israel itself has consistently broken peace treaties through targetted assasinations, the killing of unarmed civilians.even the assassination of Rithaz Rabin.the denial of human and civil rights to Palestinians. Regardless of who started it all, no-one country should consider itself above international and humanitarian law
Although no-one would want to deny the Jews a homeland after their appalling persecution throughout the centuries, the partition of Palestine - in some ways, similar to the partition of Kashmir - has remained incomplete (?), tragic and badly handled. The UN had nolegal precedent for the partition of Palestine, the indeigenous inhabitants were not (unsurprisingly) consulted. In such circumstances, it is predictable that such a decision was controversial and disputed. The fallout is still being reaped today - similarily, the kurds etc find themselves in no-mans land.

With reference to those who believe that the Palestians should be driven out of Palestine (if there was ever such a thing as eponymy, it shoudld be obvious here) becuase it is God’s will (who would want to believe in such a racist, elitist God?) the The Old Testament, most of which was written about 2000 years ago cannot be the basis for modern foreign policy in the 2O century. Nor should it be a manual to real estate in the 21st century. It is almost impossible and unrealisitc to recreate the military entity that was ancient Israel under King David in a modern landscape. Ancient kingdoms merged, were conquered, were taken over, and borders, such as they were, assimilated into different empires.

Unfortunately, the whole issue brings up notions of who and what we perceive God to be and some idea of how to interpret Biblical texts has to be referred to at a certain stage of a discussion at this level.. In my view, miltant Christianity has fossilized itself at a certain level and refuses to adapt itself to the modern realities of the New testament : it is true that the Jews, in bilical history, were the chosen people at that point in time. They contributed immensely to Western philosophy and religious development, The mistake is to believe that the preference continues for ever - the New Testament states that all nations are equal before God and that God has no favourites - at least ST. Paul tells us. This is a radical departure form the OLD testament, as is indeed is the injucntion “an eye for an eye”….
So much for a partial analysis of the religious debate, which is also incomplete but as a collective species we are so prone to fallacies. Finally, we are all supposed to be the chosen people journeying towards a symbolic kingdom ….Sure, the Jews deserve justice but so do the PaLestians.
It is interesting to note that thoughout history the balance of power constantly changes’ hubris lies in believing that is doesn’t. At certain periods the Jews had the ascendancy in Palestine; at other periods the Arabs had the upper hand, who is to say it won’t change again ? This is not based on personal preference, but it is how history unfolds. It is also interesting to note how the oppressed behave when they have the opportunity to wield power.

Perhaps it is not ver well publicised but Israel does have some contacts with Arab governemnts which it chooses to keep very secret. QATAR, where I am working, happends to be one of those countries.

[…] baserad pÃ¥ undersökningen, The Israel Lobby, hölls ocksÃ¥ en tvÃ¥timmars, mycket intressant, nätsänd debatt om undersökningen och om Israel-lobbyns pÃ¥verkan pÃ¥ USA:s […]

how much do you think gov. of new york makes $_$?

anyone have a gusse?

I would love to know why the real links that are pro-anti semitism, in a purely, for the peace prospective. For instance, the fact that the major movers and shakers pushing for major world government tyranny are Jewish. This is fact. International Bankers, Bankers, Big Business, Big Government, Anti gun, Secret societies and super secrecy, the main force behind this is The Big J word. I’d like an intelligent discussion as to why this is so and what can be done, not “if”, because we clearly see the evidence.

Unlike those on the side of Pro Israel, Violently Anti- “Any Hint Of” Anti-semitism. It’s perfectly logical for them to argue in favor of their “homeland”, just as it’s perfectly rational for a displaced and assaulted African population would yearn for the ideal “land of milk and honey” away from the persecution they face at present. I would like to have a decisive discussion as to what can be done to inform the public against brainwashing and secularization, such as is the case for the major media driven pro zionism, anti dissent, crush the heretic blaming Israel and Jews by any means necessary.

These people are powerful, but this is America, the last real bastion of freedom, and i’d like to see International Bankers, Bankers, Big Business, Big Government, Anti gun, Secret societies and super secrecy reduced in size, authority, and power. This is the real issue affecting the 21st Century. Once you see past your own racisms, defense tactics, and all else, then you will see that these are true problems that must be faced despite.

Reach me for contact at either Frnnkdlxx@gmail.com for further discussion.

Thank you, Antonio

1. At a time when Muslim fundamentalists have declared, en masse, their desire for a Caliphate and Sharia law and as the West has been subject to repeated waves of attack against Western secularism, the idea that the US should not support the only SECULAR, PLURALISTIC DEMOCRACY in the Middle East - Israel - is nonsensical.

2. Moreover, the notion, as expressed by Mearsheimer, and further elaborated upon by the many above entries, that it is Jews, not Muslims, who should have to defend themselves against suspicions of harboring “dual loyalties” not in accord with broader American interests and values, is equally spurious.

3. US immigration policy has allowed MORE Muslims to enter our country since 9-11, Muslims have a HIGHER standard of living than most Americans, and a NYC public school has been designed to be Arabic-only to accommodate the special needs of Muslim students. Despite international terrorism, Muslims have been welcomed here and time will tell whether they embrace their new home or join those co-religionists who have OPENLY declared their intention to destroy its pluralism and secularism. (Read Sayeed Qutb for details.)

4. Shall we dismiss an idea or a movement simply because of the involvement of Jews? I sure hope not. We’d have to dismiss the Civil Rights movement (in the US and in South Africa), labor movement, feminism, modern science and punk rock. Are these also part of the vast, Jewish conspiracy?

5. What is the solution? Shall Jews be the only ethnic group disbarred from participating in our democratic system?

6. THIS DEBATE ONLY PROVES THAT THE HATRED AND SUSPICION OF JEWS IS ALIVE AND WELL. Sad, but true.

I am ashamed to be called an American just because of America’s support of Israel. Who gave Israel to the Jews? Why are the jews above the law? They do not respect the rights of anyone and don’t follow the law, see President Carter’s book.
I read somewhere that Israel receives 75% of USD GDP in aid that makes me sick.

I wish all Americans would really see the truth about who are the terroists and who are the terrozied. LET’S FACE IT FOLKS AMERICA WAS ATTACKED AND IS NOW SO PARANOID BECAUSE OF ISRAEL. IF AMERICAN POLITICIANS AND AMERICANS HAD ANY BALLS THEY would stop kissing Isrtaeli ass and stand up for what is right.

Sick of AMerica.

I think it is time now America decided if it is ‘with us or against us’ …..why…..because what is about to happen to Israel is a foregone conclusion.

Pick and side and stick with it.

Israel Lobby and American Foreign Policy…

Maybe this is the kind of thing you’re talking about, Dimi3? They’ve convinc……

It is perfectly acceptable and understandable that the American Jewish community is in support of their homeland. The problem is the morally challenged fashion they use to exploit the American political system. This is a debate that should be front and center especially in this 08′ campaign like all the other issues. It is a shame we will not hear ANYTHING about it. That is wrong, and it amounts to anti-Americanism because it puts the well being of America consisting of 300+ million in grave jeopardy for a small “theocracy” of 6 million. This needs to change. I hope to start hearing more about it. For whatever it is worth, I’m calling my Congressman today.

I blame the politicians and the media. New York Times “the world’s greatest paper”? They think we’re all fools. Growing up in NYC, you realize that the minutest “jewish” concern gets big media coverage, not everything else. If LRB had not published the paper being debated, would the NYT now even mention it?

I believe Phil Donohue, with MSNBC’s highest rated show at that time, was ran-off the station because he gave a voice to the Palestinian side.

Would I be a fool to criticize Israel if I needed food on my table? It’s that insidious and scary.

You can’t get elected without money. Hurray for our “democracy”. You won’t get to the starting gate without kowtowing to the Israeli lobby. See what happened to even established, powerful Senators - Percy & Fullbright? Even ordinary people like me understand that. Where will it all lead?

“The Arabs started it. They attacked Israel on the day it was founded”.

Answer: If someone killed my mother, would I turn around and celebrate? I would like to strangle that person. It takes time for the anger to die down.

All the Arab states have come together in the Arab League, offering to recognize Israel if the latter would give back Palestinian land (this is in accordance with a UN resolution).

“They want to throw Israel into the sea”

Answer: In an interview, NBC-TV’s Tim Russert said to the late ABC-TV anchor Peter Jennings: But they (Palestinians) want to destroy Israel!

Jennings’ answer: That’s a canard, there are just as many Israelis wanting to destroy the Palestinians as the other way around.

I blame the media and the politicians. New York Times, world’s greatest newspaper? They think we’re all fools. Growing up in NY, you realize that the minutest “jewish” concern will get media coverage, but not everything else.

I believe that Phil Doonohue was ran-out of its Msnbc top-rated show because he gave a voice to the Palestinian side. This is insidious and scary.

You can’t run for President without tons of money in this greatest “Democracy” of ours. If you don’t toe Aipac’s line, watch out! Even established and powerful Senators – Percy & Fullbright – have met their come-uppance.

Would I dare criticize Israel if I wanted to put food on my table? That’s leading to a lot of resentment, people may think that all American-Jews expect as much from other citizens. This aura of oppression is unhealthy. Where will it all end?

I found the video very interesting and informative, despite the rudeness and lack of tact on the side of the moderator.

[…] Israel’s Powerful Lobby Filed under: Juan Cole, Israel Lobby — Nuclear1 @ 6:07 pm Exhibit A […]

Wow - shocked by the anti-semitic conspiratorial rants of most of the comments on this page.

Well, why don’t we just get down to the facts and the truth about all of this. For the last 90 years the Zionist community has devoted itself to manipulating various governments, ie: German, British, and US, to identifying with their petty pleas and colonist goals at the expense of so many innocent peoples lives. Bottom line is quite simple, these people are just a bunch of self-worshiping fools, shooting themselves in the foot, once again ie: 1930’s, in the history of the world at the expense of so many others. The US has lost almost 4000 Ameicans and ten times as many Iraqies have probably died in the last five years for no other reason then “Israel” and it’s insane goals. I have just one question; How many Israelies have made any contribution to mankind in that the same time period? That number is zero. We, of course, know that the American military is just filled with Jewish American voluntares fighting for their homeland, whatever that is. Boys and girls that number is zero. Israel - When will you deside to become part of the human race? Mike

I am glad that I disccovered the debate, that I listened to each of the speakers and that I was able to see each person articulate their views. Schlomo Ben Ami I feel had a broader understanding (in my opinion) than the other participants. Rashid Khalidi attempted to open the debate to broader issues, I agree with him, I am a firm beleiver in more discussion and most importantly, information.

In every walk of life we make better decisions when we have more information. By “we” I refer to us, you and me, not elitist opinion.

Elites, in my opinion beleive in their own view of this world, that somehow they have some given right to discern truth.

At times each of us beleive we are gifted with better genes, possibly that we discern that a creator is speaking through us or other introverted brain activity. There is something wonderful in each of us, this life which by its very prescence allows us to form any opinion. Opinions differ, hopefully with more information we grow out of our old ideas and realise that the same will happen to our current ideas. Change is inescapable. Finding good in others, seeing the good in others and nurturing the good in others is easier than it’s opposite.

A byproduct of this is expansionism of our understanding, an accumulation of more knowledge and a lessening of fear. Every time the fear decreases the space for it’s opposite grows. I want to listen and look at other people’s concerns, I choose freely.

I am from Ireland (I think?), I am neither Jew nor Gentile, I am alive, that’s all. If I were to harm or injure someone I could only do so to another being who is also alive, not to something without life. Life does not discriminate, when the virus of hate infects us, life doesn’t stop.

I can hate and hurt until stopped by another person, Life will never stop me. I have the power of thought, I have the power of choice I have the power to love. I have the responsibility to act responsibily, nowhere have I seen the right to hurt to steal to lie or ultimately to destroy a being full of life, OH YEAH and Darwinism thats the religion of the strong over the weak, makes it all sound so plausible the slaughter, sort of understandible, we can do nuttin’ about it man, it’s in our genes, so many apologists for disaster.

I have a silly dream, in this dream journalists tell what they observe without decoration or comment, no editorials, no hair conditioner, no softning or hardening. I entertained the notion of becoming a journalist, I realised, I would if successful, only articulate the owner’s agenda. Yes in my opinon a few acceptable journalists exist, but they are so few, it is as if none exist at all.

We did have a terrific newspaper here in Ireland many many years ago, full of information, however the editor, a military man, a Captain, resigned, the paper appears to have resigned with him too. I am not looking for balanced comment, look have a few pints of Guinness, find a mirror, look deeply at yourself and didn’t your mother tell you, keep your comments to yourself!, but please if I am going to give you my money to keep you in a job, have some respect, have a few more pints but leave me out of it, all I want is accurate information, quote your sources(but that would stop the secrecy,, good golly that means lots of perceived power would evaporate like a wisp of smoke), let me see if what you print is fair, is this fair?

Thanks for the video of the discussion a little more information goes a long way. I am not religious nor atheist nor cult nor sect nor nor nor nor, need more knowledge, thats what I need. Hello to you, you who are full of what you most love, beautiful prescious spontaenous, breath. My one true companion, also, yeah we are alike. En joy your self, pull the plug on fear and its spokepersons, down the drain, bye bye, he is such an …….. that fear charachter, life is so much lighter without carrying him on my shoulders, he never saw good in anyone, how the heck did I ever think he was my friend, must have been dreaming again, anyway he’s gone now oh yeah must close the door oh yeah better hang a sign out ‘case he comes this way again, better tell him to go find a wife, Miss Knowledge would suit him perfectly just ease all stresses away.

D’ont get me wrong, there are viscious beasts in the forest, and I fear for my life. HarryViderchi for now, Chris.

When a people are discriminated against for centuries, such as our fellow travelers of the Jewish persuasion, it takes a lot of Tender Love and Care to get beings to trust. After the slaughter of so many wonderful human beings to some fear laden idea, nurtured by the media of the time, and still nurtured by media today against another persuasion, it is extremely difficult to seeing these beings finding trust easily, indeed the opposite would be the situation for most persons no matter what their persuasion. But I am amazed that so many balanced Jewish voices exist. Arab voices also exist. These voices are only wispers in todays media, if I cannot hear what you are speaking I will never know you or your fears, don’t be afraid of me, I will not fear you. A gang exists, posing as journalists, infesting the media, do you ever get that smell when reading some of these opinions, sorta like bull droppings

I wish to thank Scribe Media for conducting this excellent and rare debate. The quality of the panel was superb. It is truly a shame it had to be sponsored from abroad, for when debate is stifled; ignorance and prejudice take the place of logic and reason. I would argue that all sides benefited from this debate by virtue of the fact that it simply took place. As President John F Kennedy stated, “…the educated citizen knows how much more there is to know. He knows that knowledge is power — more so today than ever before. He knows that only an educated and informed people will be a free people; that the ignorance of one voter in a democracy impairs the security of all; and that if we can, as Jefferson put it, “enlighten the people generally,” “tyranny and the oppressions of mind and body will vanish like evil spirits at the dawn of day.”

Vanderbilt University May 1963